Hiya Snowman,

Although I haven't followed this entire thread (just read the past few posts after reading yours), I have to say in defense of CC that it's only been in the past couple years or so that any Pro versions of software have been coming about. Most of us that have used the CC software for a decade or more already know the value of upgrades for life as we've had them (and many of them since they add nearly everything we ask for into them) for quite some time. I personally would hate to see that go away and I do believe you are a minority in that issue. Just sayin' .

One thing about the Pro version system is that even if you do buy the Pro version, it's highly unlikely it's going to ever become a Super Pro version (heaven forbid if I'm giving them ideas lol). This means you have updates for life and that to me is pretty awesome in my book. I would personally rather spend an extra 50 bux on an Pro version of something than 20 to 50 bux (more in many software cases) a year for updates. A one shot price of 50 bux is a hella lot cheaper than paying per year, even if you end up buying both the basic and pro versions.

Having said all that, I can attest that not all flash to html updates (such as the Web Form Builder update that is in progress) are going to end up being Pro versions. Since they are reworks of the main programs I don't see how they will end up being Pro versions. Flash isn't going out, and many of the mobile companies are still working on ways to get it involved, some already have (Nook Color already reads some flash things but not all). But I do love the idea of the HTML/CSS systems for the flash programs as they will be so much more versatile for us end users.

One program that has already been converted from Flash to HTML/CSS is the Web Calendar and once again this did not end up being a Pro version.

Most of the Pro versions of the software (and there has only been a handful created at this point in over a decade and a half) have been newer software that has been recently created in the past 2 to 3 years (Shopping Cart Creator systems and the new Web Image Studio that isn't really even a Pro version as much as a Full version, the Lite version was included free with image packs.

So truly, the Pro vs. Basic systems have not affected much for us at all in the past decade and a half or so, and when CC does create new programs we usually get a sense of if there will be a Pro version later or not, and we also usually get a discount to upgrade to it (for a limited time after the Pro versions are released) if you've already purchased the basic version.

So in the end, it's definitely not better to have them all in one program, and also the other topic you touched on is the compatibility with the other programs. Once the transformations from Flash to HTML/CSS are complete (I can only assume at this point that they are planning this for most of the programs that are currently in flash), we won't have this issue with things showing up or not showing up in the builders. I for one use the Form Builder all the time, but I also use the HTML Editor rather than VSD (not sure if that matters) so the Flash forms do show up for me in the preview windows and the ability to open the pages to view them in a test browser window work great when things don't show up in the previews.

Anyways, just wanted to clarify that the Pro vs. Basic issue is pretty new and very limited at this point since there haven't been but a few that have gone that route so truly,....

Updates for life is still a super viable setup, and I for one would hate to see it any other way.

As Jo Ann said, she uses the Form Builder with the HTML Editor, it's not just a module for VSD. It's a stand-alone product that can be used with or without Coffee Cup products. As for VSD, Many of us use non-CC products within our sites... slideshows and galleries, calendars, video players, menus.... There's a slew of free scripts available on line, so no extra $$$ needed! But anything you add to VSD will show that html box in the program, you have to preview/publish to see the actual item. I've gotten so used to it, I hardly notice them anymore.
Anyway, I'm happy not to have to buy the whole "suite" over again every 18 months just to get a few tweaks and changes My other software programs are old and stale, but Coffeecup is always fresh

That's because it too is older and slower.

Hey!
Tomalicious - some of us resemble that remark

I just read this whole thread in it's entirety, and although I've only downloaded a trial of VSD a few days ago, I feel I can add something.

I used Netobjects for 10 years prior to buying SCC Pro, so I do understand where Snowman is coming from with some type of master page/boarder. Netobjects does have master boaders, which were useful, but from my little play with VSD, I can honestly say the initial setup of a website is so much quicker & easier, and fun! Before downloading the trial, I'd booted up my trusty old netobjects and set about building a site, and thought "ugh, this is painstaking with the bland ugly banners etc". Off to their dated template site, and then I downloaded VSD and haven't stopped playing around with it.

Sure, I know if I accidentally move a button or similar on a page, I'm going to have to make sure I move it back so all pages stay uniform, and if I do change a logo, I'll need to change that too. I've already got a plan of attack should I need to do that. I would like to see an option of a ' Lock Object ' option one day, at the very least. I wouldn't think that would be too hard, but I'm not a programmer. That would solve a few problems for me that I have found so far.

I plan to build small websites now. My old site was well over 500 pages, so I couldn't imagine it with VSD, so it is horses for courses. If you need other functions, then sometimes another program is better suited, but the learning curve, or ease of use is steeper. I hope it all works out in the end.

I think I'd learn PHP before I got anywhere close to 500 pages
In the suggestions thread, a lock layer/object option has been requested - that's something I'd love to see as well.

Bren,
Thanks for your voice of support. I am sticking with CC and VSD. Two reasons I'm staying: 1) CC wouldn't reimburse my investment (we had a few go arounds on that one, and they refused to accept my version of events); 2) The forums.

There is another solution out there at about 3X more $ than VSD but also includes things like built-in forms etc. (So it could be a wash in the end.) Their implementation of Master Pages is really quite good. On the other hand, their Forums are nothing compared to the responsiveness and support that I see here. The CC forum Ambassadors are awesome!

Overall, I think the CC UI is friendlier, I just wish everything weren't so componentized. I understand that some use VSD and some use HTML so it makes sense, but for the VSD user it would be nice to have a true all-in-one package. (Like I've said before, it's foolish that WFB is not truly "built-in" to VSD. They're both visual editing tools and it would be so much easier on the user.

Finally Bren, one of the reasons I'm keeping my website small right now is I'm figuring out the formatting I want. The few times I've had to edit all the other pagfes to synchronize them it was PAINFUL. (And I only have 4-5 pages!) My biggest VSD Christmas wish is Master Pages. If CC does it guys it will rock your web editing world.

Anyway, I'm a CC supporter now. (If you can't beat them, join them.)

See you around.

I got SCC, then SCC Pro instead of learning PHP paintbrush. Much, much easier. Never looked back.

And great news on the lock object being suggested. I must admit, I have just started reading this section of the forum.

No problems Snowman. I must say I am really enjoying VSD compared to my old software. It's much more fun, easy to build modern sites, and a whole host of other things, and I'm just getting started!

One thing I know is CC do listen to us, so with every upgrade there are usually quite a number of good additions - and for free.

I used to buy the netobjects upgrade every year odd, and I'd look and wonder what I got. New build was supposed to be ecommerce ready, but where oh where was the eCommerce? I never found it.