Firstly I would like to congratulate the CC team for finally releasing its first pre-release upgrade version of SCC Pro. Secondly I just wanted to ask a brief question about possible improvements to the category & Sub category features. Is the Final release which is due in the next 18 days going to be much different or is this pre-release a very close result?
The main thing thing that prevented me from being able to use SCC for building stores was the limit on the categories. Shops that contain more than just a few items become very jumbled and mixed up due to the fact that you could not create sub category filtering through the categories. giving the user a much better browsing experience.
This was the main reason that I was waiting for SCC Pro due to the promise of categories & sub categories. i have been using SCC Pro today and unfortunately I do have to say that
Im still not 100% happy that it stands up against its rivals in this area.
You can create as many categories and sub categories as you wish but you cannot create a sub category inside another sub category as you can in many others such as Zen Cart for example. To many smaller store holders this may not be a problem however many people such as myself really need 100% flexibility when it comes to categorizing products especially in trades that are not as simple as selling items of jewellery or similar closely related items. I am in the motor trade so I need a top level or manufacturers followed by a secnond level of models followed by a third level of part types followed by a list of products. Is this not something that I will be able to do within SCC Pro?
If i create a top level of manufacturers and then a second levels of models then I would simply have to flood every single part for that model in a single sub category which would make to store hard to browse unless the search box is used.
as great as SCC really is I think that this feature is essential if it wishes to be a top level E-commerce solution also aimed at larger shops and genuine retail businesses selling many thousands of different items.

If you had many thousands of different items and the need for multiple nested sub categories, then you would realistically choose a very powerful solution more suited to the task.

The pro version of Cart Creator is a brand new product and the development is still ongoing. I doubt if it was ever designed to be a 'Zen basher' and it wouldn't be realistic to compare the two products side by side.

Zen cart is a serious competitor in the software based shopping cart market. It is a bad idea to think that people will not compare them, especially since Zen is free and highly customizable. I myself am and have always been CC allegiant however I'm not sure if stating that people with many thousands of items are not suited to this software as Will UK put it. Not all CC users are small shop owners operating stores in there spare time, many are genuine retail stores. If we are not suited then is it really worthy as carrying a Pro title. I really would like to hear others input on this and whether any others will struggle with the same things that I am.
Please do not see me as a party pooper as I am really loving the software, I was simply disappointed with this one feature, however that may just be because it was the main thing I was looking for. Thanks guys

PS- You do not need to list thousands of items to need to be able to add more than one level of sub categories. This completely depends on the sort of products for sale, and is certainly not a feature specific for high end users but novice store builders alike ...

Zen Cart has a powerful database driven back end that was designed from the very outset to handle thousands of products in its stride. I have used it myself and it is very capable. Open source solutions have the trade off that yes they may be free, but unless you are prepared to enter into a steep learning curve, and figure how to do some of the hard coding yourself, then it will never reach its full potential. Have a problem with the likes of Zen and you are dependant on some knowledgeable person in the forums to help you out. There is NO support desk to contact.

Once you start to have thousands of products and hundreds of transactions per week, you have to give consideration to needing a back end administration to handle things like order process control, printing of invoices, creation of packing slips etc.

My comments are nothing derogatory about the pro version, just realistic expectations of choosing the right product to suit your needs.

Zen Cart is feature rich and can be installed using Fantastico without setup knowledge. A $40 book to admin the cart is all you need to use its rich features. Nice looking templates are plentiful and can be had on the cheap if your not up to the task of editing the site yourself. Hosts back up databases frequently so a database shouldn't be a concern, and you have options one click manual backup from the control panel. The ZC forum is very helpful but you do have to have a clue. The higher learning curve is rewarded in the way of full control without limitations. Lots of folks use the such carts with less than a hundred items.

CoffeeCup Shopping Cart basic is basic. The Pro version with a search function and enhanced shipping/tax features is better. Desktop publishing and built-in ftp is nice. The user forum is a good place to get help and you have the official support route if you need it. You are restricted to the limitations of the program.

You have to include your name, address and billing info if you want to purchase an item in both systems so I really think that is a non-issue. They are both decent systems. So it's really up to the individual.

I'm a little disappointed also. Been waiting months and months for SCC Pro SOLELY for the sub-categories, and I find that it's no different from the basic version.

Notice on the CC Swag Shop page: http://swag.coffeecup.com/ -- what if instead of the category "The Gear", CC wanted to put the two sub-categories ("Clothing", and "Other Gear") as top level categories...

and then would it be possible to have sub categories under those? Could I put "Shirts" and "Shoes" under the "Clothing" category?

I haven't found that to be possible in the new software.

Am I missing something?

At the moment there is only one level of sub category. Let's say you have a main category of shirts, you could have sub categories underneath that of say mens shirts, women's shirts, but that is all that exists at present within the current pro version.

I don't know the complexity of putting more levels of sub category within later versions of pro, or what sort of timescales there would be on that. Only one of the programmers from the development team could give you a definitive answer on that point.

I personally won't struggle as the sub category is enough for my needs. I can't speak for anyone else.

I often find websites that have too many levels of sub-categories start to get a little bothersome. If you move your mouse off it for a second, it's gone and you have be careful to follow it across to click into the chosen option.

What I do like about SCC Pro is the fact I can build a decent website in about 1/4 (maybe less) of the time compared to the software I previously used, and it wasn't even a decent e-commerce solution. Others build better websites than I do, so I know my decent website will be better once I learn a little more, and take more time for design. But ultimately for me, time is money, and I'm busy enough now. I don't want to study for hours to put together a database of products. I did look into a lot of other cart options before buying SCC, and I have to say I felt a little limited with SCC, mainly due to the lack of search and smaller images.

I know that I lose some flexibility compared to deep database driven open source carts, but I can't have it all. I find that Pro has opened up a lot of different options that suit my needs. I can't tell you what your needs are though.

I have over 3000 products and I found putting all of them on line is a waste of time. In my other store I can add hundreds of sub categories but I only use two levels. I put a PDF catalog link so it can be found on every page of the website. If they want something other then the main stream products they can call or email me and I will give them the price. If they are a business I will go as far as sending them a complete price list in PDF format.

People like to look at a list and pick the way they want to find the product or just search for it. Give them options. Set it up by product type AND by brand name and any other way you can think of. It makes your store look bigger. Maybe the customer don't know they need a brand but knows what it is called but maybe some people like a brand or just maybe they want a kit and don't want to pick the parts.

Here is a quick example:

Main category

Charge Controllers

Sub Catagories

Xantrex
OutBack
MorningStar

OR you can go by brand

Main Category

Xantrex

Sub Categories

PWM Charge Controllers
MPPT Charge Controllers
Load Controllers
Grid Tie Inverters
Off grid inverters
Hybrid Inverters.

Missing in SCCP is being able to put shortcuts in other categories the way you can put the product shortcut on the home page and in a subcategory. I guess that could be called cross selling?

Do you really need to go 4 or 5 levels deep?

I tried to go with an open source cart, it wasn't pretty . . .

I consider myself to be a "talented amateur." I have a good grasp, but am not up to tinkering with a lot of coding. I needed a point-and-click solution and SCCP is it.

I can do without overly nested subcatories, after I played with it a bit, the one level did fine.

I have about 2000 items and/or combos of items. There will be some duplication as I will list items both by style and by color.

I will most definitely be upgrading my Designer program to Pro because CC answered my early Christmas wish, the ability to specify the size of images. No more making rectangles into squares (yay!).

Terri <<<-----happy camper