Conversation Moved Here from Suggestions

User 539803 Photo


Registered User
2,156 posts

Hello - Jo Ann Here,

I have split out the conversation that was carrying on in the Suggestions thread for VSD as it is beginning to get quite long and devs may not like to have to wade through all that :P I have copied the first post that basically started the conversation going and moved all the replies to follow it.

Please feel free to carry on, just needed to get it out of the Suggestions thread is all :)

So here's the original suggestion that started the conversation (as far as I could tell lol):

Jason Ellis wrote:

The more I use VSD, the more I develop a love/hate relationship with it. I love the ability to design visually, the way I used to do when I was designing printed publications. I love the simplicity, and I actually love how clean a code it generates (usually WYSIWYG editors generate nasty code). However, I hate it when I try to do something and find that I can't do it with the features VSD offers.

So here, now, is my list of "you could make my life a LOT easier" requests...

1) Master pages. Every desktop publishing software I've ever used offers master pages. And VSD really works very similarly to a desktop publishing software (which is why I love it so much). But the lack of master pages really hurts it's functionality. If you've got a 30 page web site and you want to add a new link to your main menu, that means 30 pages to edit to make that happen. Yikes! These days, almost all web sites are designed with the same header and navigation on every page - so why not have the ability to set master pages? Something as seemingly simple as linkifying your main menu is very difficult because you can't create the internal links until the pages to be linked to actually exist, but once you've created all those pages now you have to go back and linkify every menu image on every page. Yikes!

2) The ability to hand-edit within HTML generated by the program. As an example... I had developed a web site and I desperately wanted to put javascript tooltips (you know - those things where you hover your mouse over a link in a block of text, and a little box pops up with information). I got the script working fine, and had no trouble using it in hand coding, but as soon as I tried to use it in my VSD-generated site, I discovered there was no actual way to put the required bits of javascript references into the VSD-generated href tags for each underlined link. I even tried pulling the page up in a text editor, adding the stuff I needed to add, and then re-saving it, but VSD just stripped it out again as soon as I loaded the page back into VSD to make other edits or changes. It would be really nice to have a little button to push that could load a text editor to add stuff by hand if you chose that VSD would then recognize as being ok to be in there.

3) Background color AND background image! You'd think this is fairly basic, but apparently it's not. The setting screen where VSD allows you to set your background makes you choose between a background color and a background image. Why? Basic HTML allows you to insert both (i.e. "body background="blah.jpg" bgcolor="#00000") and I'm sure there is a way to do it with CSS too. The reason this is important is that if you have a dark color background image, then the background color should be a dark color too. I have a dark color background image, but because I can't define both background color and a background image at the same time, the background if the image doesn't load just shows up white. Not good.

There are other little things, but those seem to be the big three for me.

Thanks for listening!


Viv @ Jewelcraft wrote:

VSD was aimed at NON technical users (like me) and as such was kept as simplistic as possible, for those out there who can code they developed HTML editor, I could not get past the starting gate in that one.
However, you can have a free trial version of html editor, and use it to edit the html code in your VSD pages BUT if you upload with VSD again afterwards it deletes all your changes.

Editing one link in 30 pages, i have had to do more than once, its a simple copy from home page, and then paste into the other pages (i select all links with shift key and paste them all in one go) takes a few minutes !

As to background colour / image you can have a background image on each page, and select a background colour (or image to match background) for outside the page which i believe actually is also behind the background image.

No criticism of your comments at all, they are all valid but i guess you are a more competent programmer / developer than the programs were intended for, personally anything more complex and i for one may not have coped, and developed my sites at all.
Started using CC VSD in January 2009, I don't do HTML code, Sales from CC site exceeding expectations taken me out of semi-retirement
Hosted FREE on CC S DRIVE www.chauffeurdrivenluxurycars.co.uk
My new VSD & SCCP site Oct 2011 www.deloreanjewellery.co.uk
My friendly window cleaner www.mwcwindowcleaner.co.uk

User 2256123 Photo


Registered User
32 posts

Viv,
I respect your role as an ambassador, but your response to Jason Ellis is completely unacceptable. As a user community we are called to do more than help one another, but also to provide valuable feedback to CoffeeCup developers about what we, the users, want. This thread is not an opportunity to convince one another why we should stay in the dark ages of WYSIWYG editing. Try out Master Pages on another software program. You will be astounded at how easy they are to use and how useful they are. I have only 6 pages on a web site to update and I find the suggestion to copy/paste new links to each page to be cumbersome and archaic. There are lots of other visual design tools out there that offer far more functionality unfortunately they come at a significantly higher cost and they don't have the helpful and very responsive user forums that I've found at CoffeeCup. (That's why I stayed with CoffeeCup rather than switching.) Please don't try to talk us out of pushing the development staff to deliver more powerful functionality. Why must VSD remain the domain of non-technical users? That assumption needs to be challenged! There are probably many other users like me that would be willing to buy a Pro version of VSD, as long as it has more of the functionality that you can find described throughout this thread. Again, I appreciate your role as an ambassador and I apologize if I'm too direct but this is a "suggestions" thread, right?
User 364143 Photo


Guest
5,410 posts

Make her a Temporary User. :lol:
CoffeeCup... Yeah, they are the best!
User 1948478 Photo


Senior Advisor
1,850 posts

Good point(s) Snowman!!
User 539803 Photo


Registered User
2,156 posts

Hi Snowman, point taken, I guess pushing the developers is ok and maybe as you say, a better suggestion on my part might have been , as you suggest a pro version of VSD

I for one having played with this version of VSD for about three or four years, would be more capable of a more complex version now anyway, just like when i originally bought SCC

So lets have a PRO version please CC, A whole new program, with all the whistles leaving the present VSD alone as it is with its nice easy S drive built in ftp etc.

Mr. Viv :lol: senior citizen
Started using CC VSD in January 2009, I don't do HTML code, Sales from CC site exceeding expectations taken me out of semi-retirement
Hosted FREE on CC S DRIVE www.chauffeurdrivenluxurycars.co.uk
My new VSD & SCCP site Oct 2011 www.deloreanjewellery.co.uk
My friendly window cleaner www.mwcwindowcleaner.co.uk

User 364143 Photo


Guest
5,410 posts

Then you are ready to design in the HTML Editor. :)
CoffeeCup... Yeah, they are the best!
User 539803 Photo


Registered User
2,156 posts

Tom wrote:
Then you are ready to design in the HTML Editor. :)

I wish, no believe me Tom I have tried and tried, trouble is I work normally with a hammer, blowtorch, files, very much using tools to do my work, its why i am such a fan of VSD as it is, in such a simple form.

I tend to treat it as though it was one of my many hand tools, make a box here, make another box there, chizel the words in as though it was an engraving, and when all else fails HIT THE DAM KEYBOARD WITH A HAMMER !

Its the ability to instantly see what i am doing, as i can't remember from 10 seconds ago what i was trying to do otherwise.

<div> = utterconfusion H1 H2 taggs, No idea what they are talking about, so i wont try answering

But in VSD its probably equivalent to the html tool head thingy ?????
Started using CC VSD in January 2009, I don't do HTML code, Sales from CC site exceeding expectations taken me out of semi-retirement
Hosted FREE on CC S DRIVE www.chauffeurdrivenluxurycars.co.uk
My new VSD & SCCP site Oct 2011 www.deloreanjewellery.co.uk
My friendly window cleaner www.mwcwindowcleaner.co.uk

User 464893 Photo


Ambassador
1,611 posts

HIT THE DAM KEYBOARD WITH A HAMMER !


Now you are talking, I call that impact maintenance.

Seriously I am having problems with Documents being removed on upload, Links being changed to point to Mydoc0.pdf instead of Mydoc.pdf . I decided to zip up all the vnu backups and delete them starting fresh with the Site loaded in VSD. No luck so tomorrow it all gets uninstalled, I will clean the registry of all entries, remove any dlls left behind and do a clean install. It could be me trying to force WFB and VSD to talk together at least in transferring the text. Still I am used to that I jam my system several times a day leaving me to have to pull the plug.

It appears that the program has problems either deleting what is thought of old files without replacing them. Not a biggie though I am changing the links to URLs like I said before and saved a zipped copy of the PDFs on site just in case.

I still prefer this to any other system I have ever tried. I am putting together my collection of themes. Shame the Theme will not show categories you create, only default. I am putting my Artistic skill to bear and I am pleased with what I am coming up with.

The Guy from OZ


User 539803 Photo


Registered User
2,156 posts

Just one small thought !, anything that you do to your VSD website, that has been uploaded via an outside ftp program, ie direct ftp, is DESTROYED to put it any other way wont have same IMPACT , when you next upload from the inbuilt ftp :rolleyes:
Started using CC VSD in January 2009, I don't do HTML code, Sales from CC site exceeding expectations taken me out of semi-retirement
Hosted FREE on CC S DRIVE www.chauffeurdrivenluxurycars.co.uk
My new VSD & SCCP site Oct 2011 www.deloreanjewellery.co.uk
My friendly window cleaner www.mwcwindowcleaner.co.uk

User 464893 Photo


Ambassador
1,611 posts

I think I know what happens. Whatever is in the VSD saved Website folder is just uploaded. So I checked the Download folder where PDF's are stored after browsing for them in the document link.

I checked that all the necessary files are there and then. I zipped up my site on the server. Deleted it(I always liked to risk it) I then uploaded and as I thought it was a mirror image of all the files on my hard drive as you would expect literal links as they are in the root directory. That now gives me the confidence to go further. Any site I created I made sure every link had the full path ie http://etc etc.

So all is well. By the way I found a download for Firestarter probably time out but will be fun to try.

I tried the menu builder. As I also use the Bluevoda free web builder it comes up with some amazing graphics and effects. I have been plugging away for some time for them to sell a version that uploads to any server I would buy it in an instant full justification of text and rounded buttons but it only serves them and my hosting is only a third of theirs. I have been with my present hosts for 7 years and I owe them loyalty they have really been helpful. If it was not for my decision to go with VSD I would have bit the bullet and bought hosting with Bluevoda. So for Coffee Cups credit the fact that their web builder served any host won the day for me.

I just was voted in as Vice President of the local Art Society. They do not have a web site so I will start one for them. Art is like programming creative then I suppose creating Jewelry is similar.

So using a ftp program (D.FTP) for instance is perfect. Quicker is to zip it up use the file manager in C Panel upload and extract.
Still it only takes 40 seconds to upload. Our broadband is improving. Election issue.
So I now have more time to work on a couple of ideas I have for new utilities. VSD will not make me rich but already it has given me enough to buy my wife a nice Christmas present.

The Guy from OZ



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